S5: E17: Kim and Frohman Anderson: Plant Powered Family

“… it was quite a big change… when I was growing up, I even used to like hunt and fish, to be honest. I mean, that was part of our family tradition through generations, I made friends through those sorts of activities. My father and I used to do those things and my grandfather [too]. So, growing up around animal cruelty… it was very natural for me. 

…saying, “no, I'm not going to continue to participate in those sorts of things,” was actually quite a big transition and a scary one. I didn't know what that meant for my relationship with my family.”

- Frohman Anderson 


“You know, he's a very wise young man and he knew exactly how to get us, which was through education…  for Christmas, he actually said, “I don't want any gifts. I don't want any presents. I just want you to watch these movies and give me the time to talk about them.”…my husband and I watched Forks over Knives and Cowspiracy. And if you told me that morning that I would have been vegetarian, I probably would have said no. And then the next morning it was, it was just so obvious.”

- Kim Anderson

Kim and Frohman Anderson are partners in Everhope Capitol, a fund that invests in entrepreneurs and businesses that replace animals in the supply chain. Kim is also the creator and co-founder of Plant City, the world’s first and largest vegan food hall. It’s located in Providence, Rhode Island.

Kim is Frohman’s mother.

Frohman went vegan in college and his family soon followed suit. Soon after, the family business became a plant-based investment fund, and Kim founded Plant City with Matthew Kenney, one of the top plant-based chefs in the world. In their first year they served 450 thousand guests. 

This is the story of the power of one family, and how that one family is changing the future around how and what we eat. 

I hope that you are as inspired by the Anderson’s as I am.

Learn More About Everhope Capital

Learn More About Plant City

Transcript:

Kim: [00:00:00] He's a very wise young man, and he knew exactly how to get us through education. For Christmas he actually said, I don't want any gifts, I don't want any presents, I just want you to watch these movies and give me the time to talk about them. My husband and I watched Forks Over Knives and Cowspiracy. If you told me that morning that I would have been vegetarian, I probably would have said no. Then the next morning it was just so obvious.

Elizabeth: [00:00:35] Hi, I'm Elizabeth Novogratz, this is Species Unite. We have a favor to ask, if you like today's episode and you have a spare minute, could you please rate and review species unite on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts? It really helps people to find the show. This conversation is with Kim and Frohman Anderson. Kim is Frohman's mother. They invest in entrepreneurs and businesses that replace animals in supply chains as partners in Ever Hope Capital. Kim is also the creator and co-founder of the world's first vegan food hall, Plant City in Providence, Rhode Island. Hi, Kim. Hi, Frohman, thank you both so much for being here today is just awesome to have you on.

Frohman: [00:01:43] Yeah, thank you, Beth.

Elizabeth: [00:01:44] Before we get into all that both of you do now, with Ever Hope Capital and Plant City, I want to go back. I’d actually want to start with Kim because I want to go way back and I just want to talk about you growing up. What was your relationship with food and were there any seeds planted way back then? Or did all of this come more recently?

Kim: [00:02:07] No, it's much more recent, it's definitely all Frohman's fault. I had no awareness other than trying to eat, quote on quote, healthy and as defined by the diet of the moment, or just had no concept, unfortunately. I’m grateful for my son and my daughter, who brought us our best stuff.

Elizabeth: [00:02:28] I love it. Before you became vegan and your lifestyle became vegan. Was it kind of the opposite? Was it a major change?

Frohman: [00:02:37] No, it was quite a big change. I think when I was growing up I even used to hunt fish, to be honest. I mean, that was part of our family traditions through generations and we had made friends through those sorts of activities. My father and I used to do those things and my grandfather. So growing up, I think around animal cruelty and these sorts of things, it was very natural for me to actually say, no I'm not going to continue to participate in those sorts of things. So it was actually quite a big transition and a scary one. I didn't know what that meant for my relationship with my family, not just in my food choices. Fortunately, I had a very open minded, supportive family around that, and they joined in.

Elizabeth: [00:03:20] So Kim, right away when he came home and said, hey I'm vegan now. Did you say, yeah we're all jumping on board? 

Kim: [00:03:26] Well he's a very wise young man and he knew exactly how to get us, which was through education. He kind of put a little bit here and there into the conversations that fall. But for Christmas, he actually said, I don't want any gifts and I don't want any presents. I just want you to watch these movies and give me the time to talk about them. So, it was a couple of months later, but my husband and I watched Forks Over Knives and Cowspiracy. If you told me that morning that I would have been vegetarian, I probably would have said no. But then the next morning it was just so obvious, I mean, the science is settled. If you have an open heart and an open mind, there's no other way to go with that information. So, we called him in the morning and basically said, OK, what do you eat for breakfast? We'll figure it out from there. I have never knowingly had an animal product since then.

Elizabeth: [00:04:21] So the whole family goes vegan. So then what, was this part of starting Ever Hope?

Kim: [00:04:26] I think we'd already started, Ever Hope Capital. 

Elizabeth: [00:04:30] Oh, you had?

Kim: [00:04:31] At the same time, we were doing a lot of investing in solar and renewable energies and looking at companies that could reduce climate. Through all of this it came to us that we can reduce climate numbers much faster, by supporting animal alternative proteins, than we can buy all the solar, investments etc.

Frohman: [00:04:51] I was a little bit at a personal transition point in my career. I was sort of in this position of, what do I focus on next? I think I was experiencing this sort of existential dread about the future of humanity and climate change and all these sorts of things. Then at the same time, becoming increasingly passionate about different aspects of veganism, animal welfare and all the other externalities around that food system. I was just thinking of like, how do I incorporate that into any future career choices? But, what I realized is if we were really going to make an impact and have our dollars and investments be very additional and really maximize your return on investment in terms of impact, what we would want to do is actually gain a real area of focus and domain expertise. So, it was all very well timed that we are sort of going into this area of interest of impact investing as a family. But, we are also just kind of gone through this personal vegan transition as a family, and it just made sense that it was an area that we could focus on as hungry vegans, right? We are getting excited about these different brands of meat replacements, dairy replacements, milk replacements and understanding the different brands and products that were out there, and realizing that this is a very nascent industry. It's still very small. If we were to transition the world much faster towards plant based and vegan consumption, we would have just tremendously positive impacts. So that became the focus of Ever Hope, we were basically going to invest in innovative alternatives to animal based products that will help transition us towards an animal free future in terms of the food chain.

Elizabeth: [00:06:36] Will you talk about some of the companies that you've invested in?

Frohman: [00:06:39] When I started to look at the companies that were exciting, whether that was Beyond and Impossible who were even four years ago clearly sort of the category leaders in the plant based approach. Then I was learning more about the cellular based approach and some of these other technologies which focus on, how can we actually make animal alternatives using actual animal cells and fermenters and tissue engineering to actually create these sorts of products? Now, those still aren't really market ready and they'll be a ways away. But those were the two sorts of technological, parallel approaches at the time, and there were a handful of plant based companies and maybe only three or four cellular and cultivated meat companies at the time. So, it made it fairly easy to jump, network in the space, meet other investors, look at the different companies and different approaches, and start to put some capital to work. We've really tried to allocate to areas that are white space. One of the areas we identified early on was in aquatic species. While there was a lot of attention being paid to replacing cows and chickens and pigs in the supply chain. There was less focus on really compelling seafood alternatives, so we quickly put money to work with a few companies. One of these being Good Catch, which is a plant based pea protein approach which has been a really exciting company that's going to be releasing some pretty big things over the next couple of years. There was also Ocean Hugger, which was also a plant based approach, but a little bit different in that it was more focused on biomimicry and whole plant ingredients. So they're using tomatoes and eggplant and mushroom to do raw seafood replacement. So it's a little bit different in that sense. Then the third company we were able to allocate to looking at the seafood space was Blue Ngilu, which is one of the first companies taking a cellular approach to creating seafood alternatives.

Elizabeth: [00:08:34] What kind of seafood are they creating?

Frohman: [00:08:36] Everything from finfish like tuna, salmon and mahi mahi to even lobster, bivalves, molluscs and crab. I think there's a really interesting opportunity there, particularly for cellular seafood, to have an impact on the market even more quickly than the land based species. The reason I say that is if you look at the price for the incumbent product, so traditionally, like if you're looking at beef or pork or chicken, those are very inexpensive products. But if you're looking at something like bluefin tuna, that's hundreds of dollars a pound rather than a couple dollars a pound.

Elizabeth: [00:09:14] But it's all kind of on the same timeline.

Frohman: [00:09:16] Oh, very much so.

Elizabeth: [00:09:18] It's all just about scalability.

Frohman: [00:09:20] I mean, the technology is there like you can go eat a cellular chicken nugget from one of these companies right now. The real trick is, can we scale that production? Can we continue to drive down the price? I think we're very quickly heading towards that.

Kim: [00:09:34] Just imagine, right, when you have price parity on beef or fish, who is McDonald's going to order from? They're going to order it from the one that isn't hopped up on antibiotics, that doesn't have environmental devastation concerns, that doesn't have obviously the animal ethical concerns and the social justice issues around that kind of a system. It's going to be such a beautiful thing. I can't wait to see when it actually happens.

Frohman: [00:09:58] Like I said there's two parallel paths, the plant based and sort of the cultivated cellular side of things. But now, in the past year or two, we're seeing a sort of a middle path, which is a combination of synthetic biology, acellular processes and fungi. With fungi, you can't really call them plant based because they're not plants, and you can't call them really the cellular tissue engineering products because those are focused mainly on animal cells and animal culturing.

Elizabeth: [00:10:24] Will you explain a little bit?

Frohman: [00:10:26] Let's take a burger, for example, right? You could choose to make a burger from a pea protein, a soy protein or wheat protein, or some blend of those. That's a plant based approach. The cellular approach and the cultivated approach would be taking actual bovine cells, culturing those in a bioreactor and then creating a three dimensional structure that looks and resembles, you know flesh, for lack of a better word. That will be real meat, just never having to have raised or slaughtered an animal. Then in the middle is more like a plant based approach, but it's taking different fungi or mushroom strains, or growing those fungi or mushroom into those sorts of shapes. There's a tremendous amount of diversity in the fungi kingdom, and I think it's really interesting to see the research that's going on there and the different ways people are starting to apply what we know about fungi and mushrooms to solving these and to make better animal alternatives.

Elizabeth: [00:11:22] Are there products already made with fungi? 

Frohman: [00:11:24] Well, a good example that's actually been on the market for years is Quorn. You know, the UK brand, they've been around for a long time. A lot of their products have eggs in them, so they weren't vegan. But I think that they're working on changing that, so all their new products will be vegan. That's an example of using a fungi based ingredient as sort of like a primary ingredient, an alternative to meat. Mushroom cells are closer to animal cells than to plants. So, that's why I think when you have a mushroom and people say it's meaty in its texture and taste, that's some of the reason why. 

Elizabeth: [00:11:57] Does it taste more meaty than a plant based product?

Frohman: [00:12:02] I think that's just how it's developed, the formulation, the sort of manufacturing and production of that product. There's so many different approaches that people are taking right now and experimenting with. How do we get something that looks and tastes and cooks and smells and everything like meat? There's nothing to say that we can't make a product that's better in every way. So, we know that consumers make their food choices on three main criteria, price, taste and convenience. I wish that ethics and sustainability and these sorts of things came into it, but all research shows that it's price, taste and convenience that really dictates consumer habits. So if we can create products that can actually outperform on price, taste or convenience, then we can outcompete in the marketplace. I believe that we can do that due to several reasons. One, is that we're not beholden to the biology of the animal, so we could actually make a burger that in blind taste test is more desirable and tastier. It does have a better mouthfeel and also has better nutrition. So it's actually amazing because we can actually create something that's better than what we're trying to replace, and then we can even potentially develop something that costs less. So when you start to look at this as, like a technological disruption, which I think sometimes is difficult when you're talking about food, but that's really what it is no different than the technology that's employed to grow our different crops right now. I think there's a strong case for this being a future form of consumption that is inevitable, and it's just a matter of when, not if. I think that's tremendously exciting for humans, for our planet and for the animals.

Elizabeth: [00:13:41] Kim when did Plant City come into the picture? Let's talk about that a little bit.

Kim: [00:13:45] If I take ourselves back to when I first learned about this, I was really upset and horrified that I was in my mid-fifties and I had no idea about it. How could I miss this? So, anybody that knows me will tell you I wanted to then jump in and find a way to share this with the other people that I cared about in my life. So I started doing movie nights because that was the thing that got me. So if it worked for me, it should work for other people and I would write to 100 to 200 people. Every few weeks I had a movie night, and after I had about eight of them, I had a list that I shared with my son and my family of about 200 people that I moved from animal to plant based agriculture. I felt like I had the information on how to share this message, kind of distilled. Then, I would touch base with the folks that I'd been working with that original two hundred and they would all say the same thing to me. I can do this in my kitchen, but I can't go out. I am a social pariah. I'm the one at the end of the table just negotiating with the server, and it's just too hard. I go back to eating whatever when I'm with my friends, because it's just too hard. I kept hearing this over and over again. I thought, Gosh, you know, I don't want to just do a restaurant, I want to do a food hall. A big place that has lots of options, where people could walk in and not have to think, not have to negotiate with a server, not have to even question if anything was in the food that they didn't want to eat.

Kim: [00:15:11] So Plant City was born rather quickly. I saw a building and I thought, OK, that's the place. I wrote a one pager with a business plan, and I sent it to two folks, and one of them was Matthew Kenny. We had the pleasure of, one being a fan of his restaurants and two, we had spoken with him about investing in a CPG line that hadn't worked out at the time because it wasn't really ready, but we fell in love with him as a human being. You know, at this stage in your life, if you're going to be working with people, they've got to be really good people. So I sent him a one pager then 10 minutes later, he wrote back and he said, I'm in. I love the concept, I want to do it. That was in October and we signed the lease in January, and I remember calling him and saying, OK, we're going to open, and when do you have a date that you can be available? He then said, 2019 or 2020? I said we got a few months free rent here. You don't know me very well. We're going to be open in five months. I literally took a former fourteen thousand square foot steakhouse and strip club and turned into Plant City in five months

Elizabeth: [00:16:19] For people who don't know Plant City. Will you describe it?

Kim: [00:16:21] It's the world's first plant based food hall. My partner Matthew Kenney, who's the top plant based chef in the world, has twenty six or twenty eight restaurants now growing every week, literally on five continents. He is the wolfgang puck of plant based food. He's an innovator and he runs a phenomenal team. So, we chose our personal favorites from his portfolio of fabulous restaurants that we thought would work in Rhode Island. So we brought in the pizza restaurant, we brought in the Mexican concept restaurant, and then he and I created something called Newberger because I really felt like the best way to be introduced to plant based food is a great burger and American comfort food. So Newberger carries burgers, chicken sandwiches, fries, chili cheese fries, things like that. Then he had a concept in California called Makeout, which stands for Matthew Kenney Takeout, makeout. This was really kind of like a little deli, but I wanted it to be more like a sweetgreen. So, we took the makeout concept and expanded on it, and it's literally a buildable plus amazing baked goods and coffee bar. We have one hundred and thirty eight employees even during COVID now. We had one hundred and seventy our first summer. We have four restaurants, three bars, a community center in the lower level where we do jump start programs and classes around mindfulness, cooking classes, wellness classes, anything that is a like minded philosophy.

Frohman: [00:17:52] Then we have the marketplace.

Kim: [00:17:54] Correct, thank you, marketplace. We added a catering space and our very own bakery. So it's really kind of like a plant based Eataly.

Elizabeth: [00:18:01] It's kind of like vegan heaven.

Kim: [00:18:03] I have had people say that, but you know what's really interesting and I'm very excited about this. We have been blown out since the day we opened. We served thirteen thousand guests in our first seventy two hours. By the way, if I'd ever presented this as a business plan to anyone, they would have laughed at us because it's the world's biggest vegan restaurant in a place where there's no parking and no foot traffic, in Providence, Rhode Island.

Elizabeth: [00:18:24] What was the vegan scene in Providence before this like? Was there one at all?

Kim: [00:18:27] Yeah, there were a few spots and we were beating a path to them every day, but knew that there was room for more. But the beautiful thing that Matthew has is that his food is so delicious. Our guests are not plant based. They just heard we have awesome margaritas and nachos and tacos and pizza. So, if you come once you're coming back. So we just built on that, this phenomenal following and it's just been incredible. Never any animal products, no palm oil. We are also certified kosher, so we're the only Kosher food hall outside of Israel.

Elizabeth: [00:19:00] Thirteen thousand people in three days, before COVID? Did it just stay like that the whole time?

Kim: [00:19:07] It was incredible and we just had to run as fast as we could to not get the wave coming over us. You know, we started with 90 employees and we just had to build and build and build and build and build as fast as we could. New prep kitchens, new space just to try to keep ahead of it. It's a good problem to have, but it's still a problem.

Elizabeth: [00:19:25] Were you shut down for a while during COVID or were you able to stay open?

Kim: [00:19:28] The good news is the day before our governor was going to close. Our staff started to feel really uncomfortable with indoor dining and we closed indoor dining and we did a lot of pivots really quickly to bring up curbside drive thru, takeout and delivery. We had started an app already when we had about three or four thousand followers on our app. We now have about 15, 20 thousand followers on our app. We were able to build up and maintain a business through the takeout window, the drive thru up front and the delivery out the back door. We were able to sustain with that when the PPP came along. We were able to bring back almost all of our employees. I think we've got about one hundred and thirty eight hundred employees, a lot of them have kind of disappeared because they moved home. The people who wanted to work were still with us, and we were able to maintain that, it's getting a little challenging now with colder weather being in the Northeast. But we'll solve for that too, because we're opening up another restaurant, I don't know if you heard.

Elizabeth: [00:20:26] No, I have not heard this. 

Kim: [00:20:27] So you know the original goal was that I wanted to scale this and the idea right now of building large edifices in the middle of cities wasn't so intriguing to me as, how do we get this food that tastes great and more convenient during COVID? So we are creating Plant City X. Our first Plant City X is opening in Newport, Rhode Island, right outside Middletown. It is a plant based Drive-Thru.

Elizabeth: [00:20:54] That is so cool.

Kim: [00:20:55] Yeah, so it's basically a vegan Burger King or McDonald's. Pick your fast food restaurant. It's the burgers and the fries and the chili cheese fries and the truffle mac and cheese and the superfood smoothies. It's real food, plant based and fast.

Elizabeth: [00:21:11] Is that one of many coming?

Kim: [00:21:13] The goal is to template this. I know that it's going to work and I know that it's going to be successful. Things can come up in business that can shock you, and COVID was one of them, but unless there's a world shocking event, I believe that we will be able to assemble a team and build many more of these. That would be the goal.

Elizabeth: [00:21:31] It's just incredible that you've been able to just maintain and thrive during such a tough time. It's a big testimony to the food, and to you.

Kim: [00:21:41] Yeah and you know, one of the things that I'm excited about is being able to go back to my son and my family and say, OK, here's the impact, we serve four hundred and fifty thousand guests in our first year. If 80 percent of those folks are not plant based or vegan, then what you've done is you've replaced a plant based meal for an animal meal. If you look up on the vegan calculator, what that saved in the first 16 months of us being in business is two hundred and twenty million gallons of water, eight million pounds of grain, six million square feet of forest, four million pounds of carbon and two hundred and one thousand animal lives. That's one spot in one state, the smallest state, in the Union. That was very exciting. Then the other thing that was really cool is we're completely compostable. Our packaging, everything is 100 percent compostable. So we've actually removed one hundred and fifty tons of compost material from the local landfill to an industrial compost.

Elizabeth: [00:22:39] Just everything you're doing is incredible. I would really like to come up there just to go to Plant City. 

Kim: [00:22:46] I would love to have you. 

Elizabeth: [00:22:47] I would love it. I wish there was one in New York. But we do have a lot of Matthew Kenney restaurants. There are a lot of vegan restaurants in New York, and it's amazing how many non vegans are starting to really get excited about vegan food. It's way more important than feeding the vegans, you know?

Kim: [00:23:03] Correct, right. That's like our little I call it our little velvet hammer. I have these guys that come in and their wives are dragging them by their shirts and they're walking in the front door looking at me like, Oh, dear God, save me, I'm going to eat lettuce and tofu. They look at me and I look at them and just immediately find pity on them. I say, don't worry, buddy, it's OK, you like pizza? Do you like hamburgers? Do you want your normal pasta? We have food here that you've got to love, and they're like, Oh, thank goodness, because they didn't know what to expect when they came in. Some of those folks are the ones who fall the hardest. They come back and they say to me, Kim, I can't believe it. My wife was involved in this and I was fighting it, but the food is so good and now we go home and we make it on our own, and now we're all plant based. Food can be a wonderful way to lead people to this way of life. I have these cute little postcards up on the wall because I don't want to be standing on a soapbox and beating people up. They're a copy of the top 10 reasons why you want to go plant based and then a list of how to learn more, and it's all the podcasts and the movies and the Instagram accounts to follow and where to get good recipes so people, if they want, can leave with some information to kind of jumpstart them.

Elizabeth: [00:24:14] What about what you're seeing right now? What are you most excited about like new companies or new things coming out of the market?

Frohman: [00:24:22] I'm most excited about the really large food companies that are now participating in this space. You can look at the restaurants like Dunkin Donuts, Starbucks, Burger King, you know them all, adding plant based meat alternatives and other meat alternatives or dairy alternatives to their menus. That's huge purchasing power. They're developing those products themselves, and it's creating a tremendous amount of tailwinds for the industry at large. So that's exciting. But just, from a consumer perspective, like a hungry vegan, I'm just excited to see how much better the products are getting. I mean, what Impossible and Beyond accomplished? Call it on the order of magnitude of $10 million in R&D spending over the past half decade, that's nothing. I'm pretty sure Gillette spent like a billion dollars developing their last razor blade. So, when we start to talk about the room for growth and the amount of capital coming in, I have no doubt that these products are going to continue to get better and taste better and be healthier and cost less and be more accessible everywhere. All those metrics that I said that impact consumer choice, we are going to continue to outcompete on those and more people will just be eating more plant based. I'm always excited for people to become vegan and understand the ethics behind things and the environmental impacts behind the food choices. But if we got the whole world to go vegan overnight just because it was cheaper and healthier and tasted better, I'm happy with that too.

Elizabeth: [00:25:51] That's one of my favorite parts, how excited people get that they actually like it.

Kim: [00:25:55] I have to share with you one of the most exciting things for me, and this is totally different. I'm not even sure Froman is going to know what I'm talking about at first. With Ever Hope, while he was out there doing all this and I was trying to get Plant City done, he would not let Ever Hope funds go into Plant City because we don't invest in restaurants. So this had to come out of a separate bucket from the Anderson family, not the Ever Hope fund. I said my goal is to make this thing so darn successful that you're going to beg me to put the Plant City logo on the page and guess what, the Plant City logo is on the page. 

Elizabeth: [00:26:38] Oh my god, that's amazing.

Frohman: [00:26:35] It's interesting. When you look at how we were going to allocate capital to accelerate this transition as quickly as possible, away from animal based products. We all came to the decision that restaurants actually weren't the most efficient use of capital at the time because it's a million or $2 million or more per location, and we had experience investing in different restaurant chains before. It's just a very capital intensive way to scale, and we thought, Well, if we're investing in a CPG brand or a retail product, that's far more scalable, you can reach the entire country with a product line, versus a restaurant service in one location. But what we kind of missed, I think in some of those early assumptions was the social dynamic around this. So, what we really prove with Plant City here in Providence is that, where people interact with food and have the best food experiences is in restaurants. That's where people can change their mind if they have a really good experience. You can almost control that experience when somebody walks in your door and you're establishing the ambiance, the service, the menu and all these sorts of things. You can really curate a positive first experience with that. My mom probably wouldn't mention this, but we received ‘best new restaurant’ in Rhode Island this year.

Elizabeth: [00:27:53] Congratulations!

Kim: [00:27:50] Yeah Rhode Island and the Providence Journal, who would have thought a year ago that we had the best new restaurant in Rhode Island?

Elizabeth: [00:27:58] I am going to steal your idea for Christmas and just ask people to watch videos. That is like the best thing I've ever heard. I want to thank both of you so much for not only for coming on today, but for everything you're doing to change the world and to bring all this. It was such a positive message and focus, and it's all about abundance and positivity. This is why people are kind of coming into it and you too are a big part of that. So thank you.

Frohman: [00:28:31] Thank you for everything that you do Beth to bring these sorts of messages to people and share this inspiration.

Elizabeth: [00:28:47] To learn more about Kim, Frohman, Ever Hope Capital and Plant City, go to our website Species Unite.com. We will have links to everything, we are also on Facebook and Instagram. If you have a spare minute and could do us a favor, we'd really appreciate it if you rate, review and subscribe to Species Night on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you would like to support the podcast, we would also greatly appreciate that we are on Patreon. I'd like to thank everyone at Species Unite, including Gary Knudsen, Natalie Martin, Caitlin Pearce, Amy Jones, Paul Healey, Santina Poky and Anna Connor, who wrote and performed today's music. Thank you for listening. Have a wonderful day!


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S5. E16: Jennifer Stojkovic: Vegan Women Rule